[Cameron]

I don’t think I agree that the chart is not deterministic, but I do think it is a map and guide. I think people want to believe that the chart is not deterministic in some way, but it doesn’t make sense to me because at the same time people all pretty much believe they are meant for things and have a purpose. Which is a deterministic thing to say.
Even at minimum, people were determined to have the family and upbringing that they had with no choice in the matter. I think in modern times, we’re confused about destiny and responsibility to life.
I also think people oftentimes can be excessively attached to their chart “as themselves.”
When in ancient times, mostly only the Asc spoke to the person. AKA, the whole chart is not the person in ancient astrology.

[Cameron]

I think I have an opinion that I stated because it’s what I think, not something to impose.
I think that I am perceiving you as being sensitive to that because of personal experiences and I can do my best to honor that in this conversation. (Let me know if this is accurate or not)

I also think that many want to believe that things external to them determine less than they do.
We rely on our ancestors, our environment, upbringing, etc to even be who we are. (Stating that as a fact)
Neither of us determined that. And Astrology points to that.
I believe that many deterministic elements exist within astrology.
And I think it’s foolish to see it as black and white.
I think it is more both/and.
So, I would say, astrology has deterministic components as well as “free will” components to it.
I did say it in some absolute manner because, when you were 6 years old, the chart said things that you couldn’t change.
The chart says things about your parents that were determined.
How you respond and embody and work with/through these things is where agency exists. (All of this is to say, I stated something as fact and gave evidence for it. The invite is to share how that is not a self evident truth)
Even then, I believe that we have a responsibility for our blood line, helping spirits, etc that in my world view would be foolish to even try to avoid. Because if we are here for a purpose, that is determined prior to incarnation and that is not something to resist…. In my opinion. So perhaps I own what I speak, indeed.

If we were really to break this down, I think we would even have to go back to address how we are defining identity as well though.

This conversation has many components to it I sense now that we are entering into discourse where things are being broken down.

P.S.
(My invitation in reflection is to ask more questions. I will try to do my best to honor what you’ve said as we exchange, but I don’t know if I am understanding what you are asking for fully in your response and reflection on how you are asking me to shift how I talk/share.)

[Cameron]

I like looking at distinctions and do not lean in the direction of speaking in a deterministic manner.

Deterministic, means to enclose, set bounds, or limits. And I think a chart definitely does that, but not in the way many perceive. I think it does it in the way that it allows for the ability to create distinctions.
We definitely don’t all need to agree on these things and I truly have more than one set belief around all these things as I continue to build a relationship with it all.
It’s definitely layers of understanding the potentials of astrology.

I don’t know if I am responding in a way that you were inviting me to, but I am open to it if I wasn’t understanding.

[Cameron]

Nettle seems to work here for sure as a spagyric essence.
With the essences, like can treat like and Nettle having a deep connection with the archetype of Mars seems like a subtle indicator that it can be taken as an essence for this.

I would consider the spagyric tincture MAYBE less likely to fit, but even then, it is cooling, an alternative, and nourishing.