[Marilyn Michele]

Valarie, lovely to see you here.

And what a rich lineage and history you have. It is rich to read and hear. Thank you for sharing.

I just visited your region for a first time last month. And what a spectacular region of our world. The weather was sunny and mild.

I found Sajah through a lecture he offered on astrology and herbalism. I felt he was talking language I understood. As a newer astrologer I was eager to find other’s who sat with plants AND tuned into the language of astrology.

I am curious about some of your garden/farming experiences. As a child which plants became noticeable at first to you? And I would wonder which has been a long fast friend through the years?

Lovely again to see and hear from you.

X

[Marilyn Michele]

Rebekah,

I am thinking of you. Kidneys and their expression in our bodies… so broadly impactful. And they root us. Rooting in our busy busy world is nearly odd. Feeding our rooting. What do you do or what have you found roots you?

…and your journey with nutrition. As you move through your research on oxalates, yet again, please keep me informed.

[Marilyn Michele]

Chad, my apologies on coming on so strong. I hear you on being new to the research and such. I will check with my research practitioner friend who is astounding on her research skills on verifying the date and accuracy of oxalate tables.

Experientially I get so frustrated when I compare the lists with what I have come to find as trustworthy. Experientially trustworthy.

Well done on your investigations. Let me know what you find and where you are looking.

Once I found Sally’s information as being accurate, I just keep my head down trying to manage my diet and body symptoms. And that is why I want to understand the nature of our medicine making and oxalates.

Blessings. I appreciate your integrity and investments.

X

[Marilyn Michele]

I concur, fully with your feelings and vibe here.

I cannot speak to why the toxicity of oxalates has been missed. Of course my response is that Sally knows. She has numerous other folk (researcher’s, practitioners and such) that she references. And health administration is her field. I am not a science gal.

But I can speak to why it is hard to “believe” or understand the oxalate impacts. In broad generalities we like things to be specific and nailed down. That is a hubris of our medical white coats. The need for definitive results eliminates a fuller picture. And that is precisely why I have not been effectively diagnosed time and again.

I had chronic fatigue/ ME back in the 1980. I went through so many doctors then to get anyone who could navigate this with me. The symptoms were so varied depending upon the person. It defied classifications which were available at that time. I landed with a second generation MD whose father did leading research on gut health. He was an Allergist/Immunologist, and a Nutritionist who knew nutrition like few did.

Late in life I find out that as well I am a “downwinder.” I was down wind from atomic bomb testing. Blah blah blah… all the things of how and when. (I was in my mother’s belly, and just a toddler.) How does this show up? In a myriad of ways. Lists and lists are now generated. The common denominator is now understood clearly- the endocrine system, namely the thyroid. But still I don’t have answers for what I might show from my toxic exposure.

Is oxalate toxicity the massive bucket, (a shit bucket) for holding all the adverse health conditions? I find it hard to believe myself. Is it too far fetched? And yet…. I experience it as a very big bucket.

Due to my life’s expression, I have been given to tune into my body. Tune in like fine tune into my body with keen awareness. And I have had a batch of acute to chronic illness to experience such awareness. Not the same illnesses. And a couple were killers. So the depths of attunement have been exercised.

Oxalates are a thing. Straight up. Not just in me, but in my herb “study” group. Some of us met and began our own side meet up. We are whistling along sharing on this herb and that. We are having a blast, while yet tending to various health conditions. We each know body adversity like few will. And then we began to examine oxalates. So this is not just my soap box.

I am bringing it up here in our tea house to gain insight on what of our herbal practice is clear of oxalates and how might we make oxalate free medicine.

I took the Alchemical Herbalist course to make medicine. Medicine for me and my family. And I took the Vital Practitioner course to understand my body systems better and understand what it is to be a vital practitioner. My interface with my body is also an interface with plants. This cannot be separated. My relationship with my teacher’s and friends, the plants is cosmically profound.

Does not the delicious complexities with profound simplicity of body astound? I marvel at the gift of tending to my body, this vessel of and within all that is – in illness and in health. Dont we miss many things due to the influence and residual (karma) of our culture and the lineage of our vessels. To find we are missing something, is marking new territory of understanding. Welcome the chaos of discovering.

There is new strong headway in oxalate awareness. Sally is very reasonable in costs (I started by buying her intro packet for under 3 dollars.1) and she offers a variety of ways to digest the saturation of information. I went with her for those reasons. Blessings be yours. And may you have wind in your sails as you move.

And again, how about the oxalates in our herbal medicine making?

X

[Marilyn Michele]

Jill I would be asking the same questions and feel the same frustrations. Your question is best addressed by Sally K. Norton. She has taken this on and is very clear on the science.

Let me put a word of caution in first up. You do not want to change your diet quickly. Do not dive into a low oxalate diet straight away.

Our culture has worn us down with diets. No question. Even if we don’t do the diets, it seems we end up defending our eating choices with others or in our minds.

I can be definitive that your diet is extremely high in oxalates. And while you might be targeting your thoughts on this cancer, with a high oxalate diet we often don’t see the implications until conditions are fully expressed.

I can only speak to what I would do. I would read Sally’s book “Toxic Superfoods.” There are numerous practical bits. As well her book “Data” which I bought online to put into all my devices for an easy reference is the most accurate source on oxalate content in foods.

And I would just begin to lower the amount of an oxalate food. I started by giving up grains. Then I gave up having morning green tea and I went back to coffee. Then I let go of my chocolate.

I was coming out of “bad blood syndrome” from a toxic backlash. I had remarkably improved. But I could not turn a bend of stable healing as my kidneys were acting up in ways that I had never experienced. Exhausted and down trodden. Being rather “left out at sea” by practitioners, I felt just the logic that oxalates were contributing had me stepping in. And when in 6 months of a slow back out, I had bodily evidence, I was all in. Some symptoms and conditions which were so stuck remedied. It was a small window of clear symptoms which faded as oxalate stores began to release. But now I knew a crucial element was oxalates.

So I have honed in on a doable diet. Discipline is my middle name. And I have suffered greatly. So I am the odd one at a party. I am not able to give a list to the host. But and this is a big but… I am improving. I am stable (in a fragile way) for a first time in 9 years. And some stability is like gold. Precccciiiooouuuus. So precious.

Best to you. Keep me informed. I am not able to lead you, but I will commiserate and be able to empathize – should or if you want.

[Marilyn Michele]

Your confusion is justified. This crosses over the standard for healthy eating. No question. I had no idea I was loading my body with oxalates in eating all of my whole grains from around the world. (Teff, Quinoa, Buckwheat and so on. As well as Almond flour.)

Oxalates build as we store them in our bodies. When the ‘problems’ arise will depend upon the load and your condition.

I am not going to explain their damage better than Sally K Norton. She has lots of free information on her website. She has honed in on this and offers scientific clarity.

I have experienced this first hand. And I have women who have joined me in this discovery, each for ourselves. Both life time herbalist. One an practitioner trained in chiropractic medicine. And I have been apart of oxalate support group/online lecture.

Yes, oxalates impact kidneys. I noticed them the most when I was getting constant UTIs and then realized I was passing stones. I had constant, all day acidic pH. The cloudiness and acidic pH has gone away completely unless I miss my minerals and eat higher amounts of oxalates. But oxalates impact eyes often. They can be a factor in joint pain. They can store in bones causing osteoporoses. They can be a factor in breast cancer and so on. I am listing my experiences. There are many other’s.

When it was recognized I was celiac. The way it manifested in my body was unique. And there were many ways gluten disrupted folk’s bodies in similar ways. But there were many variances of impact. Why is it not likely that oxalates show up differently? There are some main ways it shows up. But there are many variables.

Yes we should as health practitioners be aware of oxalates.

Yes it is a massive dietary shift.

Yes the longer we ignore oxalates the longer it will take for them to clear out of our bodies. I am in my 3rd year, rounding into my 4rth this late summer. And I am JUST getting some stability. But going off my restricted diet throws my body quickly into a tail spin.

GREAT questions. GREAT insight with your query. You are mark on. But it is against the grain of what is expected. And that is really really hard.

[Marilyn Michele]

I can easily list my minerals. But I got them from Sally K Norton’s book. She had several recommendations. Her book is easy to read and for me and those who have read it, we have found her very reliable.

[Marilyn Michele]

Except this chart is not accurate Chad. Just blackberries are listed low, but in actuality they are a high oxalate food. The older data is just flimsy in its reliability. I am curious if you looked at Sally K Norton’s website. I say this as I and other’s have looked over numerous website offerings and they variability was frustrating. I used this chart prior to getting the book Data by Sally.

[Marilyn Michele]

Rebekah, how is your kidney journey going? Is there non prescriptive practices which you employ to support your kidney function? I take a set of various minerals peppered throughout the day to keep any flushing oxalates which are leaving my body to be bound and flush out. And to feed my mineral balances. I understand the flush or release of oxalates can typically last 7 years while on a low oxalate diet.

I agree cleaning products can be loaded with oxalates and I have come to understand contact causes absorption. The kidneys are fascinating, beautiful and delicate.

Have you tried Nettle seed? I have been harvesting nettle seeds for a few years now. I have been using them straight on my foods like pepper. But maybe it would be best to try a tincture of them instead. Seeds can be higher in oxalates. A factor of plant protection.

X

[Marilyn Michele]

Chad – have you gone to Sally K Norton’s website? Or have you investigated in other directions?

[Marilyn Michele]

Wish I could edit some of my typos which are above… or periods instead of a comma. I think you all can get the gist of what I am trying to share…

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Marilyn Michele.

[Marilyn Michele]

Hey Cynthia thanks for engaging. Buy Sally K Norton’s book. And you will learn a good deal more.

For just $2.50 check out this beginner’s guide to overcome oxalate overload. The link DOES work….

https://shop.sallyknorton.com/products/beginners-guide-to-overcoming-oxalate-overload

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Marilyn Michele.
• This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Marilyn Michele.

shop.sallyknorton.com

Beginner's Guide to Overcoming Oxalate Overload

The Beginner's Guide is a colorful three-page document that explains the basics for getting started with oxalate-aware eating. The Guide answers common questions about the purpose, safety, and flexibility of this eating strategy. Page two visually presents an overview of the … Continue reading

[Marilyn Michele]

My heart sends vibes of love and respect for your sister’s courage and fight. Victorians thought they were fancy in eating rhubarb leaves. That is oxalate poisoning.

Oddly we don’t know oxalates well. Some folk still clean with oxalate cleaners, the white powdered for scrubbing like Bon Ami, or Bar Keepers while NOT wearing gloves. And then their hands are all stiff and inflamed.

Let me know if you learn more on oxalates.

X

[Marilyn Michele]

Hey Michelle, wisdom is felt as you spoke. Thanks for engaging.

X

[Marilyn Michele]

Sajah with all due respect, those oxalate conditions are just a beginning.

The other day I ate more oxalates that usual due to a dinner someone else provided. And while they were careful with it being gluten free I was on vacation and missed giving them a broader list. The foods had almond flour, whole grain flour, maybe some turmeric, and so on. I was guilty for taking to nibbles of chocolate.

I keep a journal spreadsheet style of symptoms. I rank my body’s wellness as well making notes on sleep latency, duration & depth, number of times for night urination, pH levels of urine throughout the day, waking energy, emotional -mental – physical flows, skin conditions, duration of the day’s energies. I keep track of my tongue and my body’s kidney signals. As well as specific ways that oxalates target my body. Such as my eyes, old joint injuries (driving hip, and knees are clear flares), and scars.

Now it could be said, well that is too broad a list. Except nearly all cleared up in my first year of dropping out the oxalates. And then as my body started dumping, these symptoms flared. As I am three years in, most of these symptoms have wained or completely cleared – until I eat oxalates again! That meal I spoke of, most all of the numerous symptoms I listed flared back up over night. I had severe inflammation throughout my body. Cloudy urine. And old scars screaming with pain.

As I need to keep my diet at 40 – 50 mg per meal licorice tea will overload me as in 1 tsp is 70 mg oxalates. While 1 tsp of turmeric is 50 mg. Yet a turmeric essential oil has trace oxalates. Cinnamon 1 tsp has 60 mg oxalates, the essential oil has trace. Slippery elm bark powder, 1 TBS is 110 mg. Clearly that much slippery elm powder goes a long way. Milk thistle 1 TBS 210 mg oxalates. Chaga mushrooms powder 1 tsp – 210 mg oxalates. But how about a tincture of it?

I am wondering if the tincturing reduces the oxalates to trace amounts and that is why tinctures have been so remarkable in my addressing cancer treatment adverse events.

Allowing the impacts of oxalates to be understood as they happen throughout the body. And considering the vast overload of oxalates our healthy diets present I feel this is a responsibility as vital practitioner’s we become better informed. I took your courses both the Alchemical Herbalism, and the Vitalist to gain insight on my own body and medicine making for me and my family. It has been revolutionary for me. And I sense it could be a crucial source of aid to those in oxalate toxicity IF our processes remove oxalates. Does tincturing remove them? Does a Spagyric add some back in through calcining? Does a decoction need to have a wash bath first? But would this dilute the plants offering? Viable plant constitutes could be accessible where otherwise in tea or simple powder form they are of higher risk to overload with oxalates.

Thanks for engaging.

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