[Marilyn Michele]

• Sally Norton provides a documented example of how difficult it is with old data to diagnose oxalate toxicity or poisoning. Many household cleaners, as well as anti-freeze are oxalate loaded. The Bar Keeper’s powder and so on. There is a case where a woman was poisoning her husband with antifreeze in the wine. Now this is obvious toxicity. BUT consider how the medical field struggles to diagnose him. And consider his life long conditions due to the toxicity. He was rushed to the hospital with life threatening symptoms. The hospital didn’t know what was causing his symptoms. They never figured it out within their medical practice. A neighbor told the police she had been with the wife when they were seeing how much anti-freeze could be added to a glass of wine before it was noticed. Only then did the medical field discern the oxalate poison. I don’t have all of the details in mind, but he left after being in a comma for a few days, blind and in a wheel chair. Oxalate poisoning is not understood. It is big in the eyes. And it impacts more than the kidneys, UT.

  I had a high oxalate toxicity due to my “healthy” diet of whole grains (oats, quinoa, whole grain rice, millet, Teff, buckwheat, arrowroot ) & almonds, hazelnuts, peanuts and so on which are ALL high in oxalates. Obviously some more than others, but all very high. I had a food business where we sold superb delicious gluten free whole grain foods and flour blends. And I loved my peanut butter, robust salads with spinach, green tea, and chocolates within moderate limits. But I enjoyed each. My diet was 15x a safe range of oxalates. And the whole grains had been consumed well over a decade. I perfected and sold it. I decided to carefully drop my oxalate intake as it was likely impacting the confluence of health symptoms which for me were eye and broadly kidney UT concentrated.

  Oxalate toxicity is delicate. The body will store the excess. Oxalates will be stored in the eyes, bones, in scare tissue, in body organs, AND make havoc for UT & of course make kidney stones. IF I was to drop my high high oxalate intake, my body would start to flood a release, which would ravage my symptoms and redistribute the oxalates. I backed out slowly, over a 6 month period. And wowzer. I had a body restoration I had not seen in years. It was like magic. It is called the honeymoon phase. Because after another 6 months the body realizes it can start offing the oxalates. And that is rough all over again. The areas sensitive to oxalates flare up again.

  Aside from diet the key has been taking calcium which binds with oxalates to allow them to be taken out of our body. So I have a blend of minerals I take through the day, to help bind with oxalate dumping. And now it is a slow crawl along. The body symptoms returned because they were oxalate derived, and with oxalates flushing through the sensitive battered body sites are reactivated, but there is the long game here at play. So moderation, endurance and support played out.

  I am three years into this. And I am not just tending to myself. I have a few contacts , we meet weekly. We each are dealing with oxalates. And I am often a part of a support group who are navigating this. So I see the broader implications. I know of the numerous ways oxalates show up in the body, from the fellow long term folk I walk this out with. Who are herbal queens. One is life time herbalist, the other a professional herbalist.

  I do suspect that those of us who had other body conditions prior to oxalate overload are more susceptible to oxalates. I see this correlation as well. I do not have verification aside from my observation.

  And while I know the diet. I know the external and internal mineralizing.

  What I am looking for is do we know when oxalates are removed from herbs? It is suggested that a tincture does not carry forward the oxalates. As well how about Spagyrics? Has this been verified? Does anyone know of such research? It is suggested that teas do carry forward the oxalates. Would one water extraction diminish the oxalates- enough to make it a low dose (3-5 mg oxalate) per serving0? Set the tea for 5 minutes and dump that, to redo it? I know folk think this works with almonds. Soak them overnight and they are fine. Except that a handful of almonds is 400 mg oxalates. 8x a day’s measure. Soaking them makes it 350mg. Still not within a day’s safe margins.

  Anyone else looking into oxalates?

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Marilyn Michele.

[Marilyn Michele]

My monograph: Horsetail. 350 – 400 million years on. As an artist my monograph is a painting. After each of my acute to chronic illnesses (about 4 life/death/life changers) I have come out of the illness feeling naked and in an open landscape. And yet, all the while, I have vividly discovered behind me, within me, is that which has my back. I have found, is all that is, all that has been and all that will be cross through the rounds of time. Seen and unseen is fully present. And there is ancient horsetail. Of both the physical 3D seen world and of all. Saturnian, aware of the edges, the boundaries of physical life. Telling stories on us, on me, when I listen! A few plants have a spiritual dance with me through the eons. And horsetail is one.

[Marilyn Michele]

You are exactly right. What research WAS is very limited. Again Sally K Norton’s with a master’s in Public Health was primarily a plant eater. She had horrible feet conditions that kept her from running. She has been a spear head on the research. Her website has loads of free materials. And she has a couple of reasonably priced books. One is just DATA on current reliable research showing oxalate levels.

As I understand it, oxalates are primarily a plant protection condition. So yes many plants, and herbs have high or a strong load of oxalates. So yes primarily plant diets can be easily overloaded with oxalates. And that doesn’t include all of the alternative milks. They are severely loaded with oxalates.

I was coming out of a toxic overload (severe cancer treatment’s adverse events, a dozen years out.) And I heard Sally in an online symposium. She spoke of super high oxalate foods. Spinach, almonds, (or most nuts) peanut butter, chocolate, and whole ancient grains (buckwheat, teff, quinoa, and so on) ALL of which were in my diet with regularity. In other words when 130 – 220 mg is a normal daily range, I was in the 1000+mg range daily. Just from the foods listed above, let alone others I didn’t recognize.

Today after an initial slow decline WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT, slowly drop the oxalate load in your diet! Today I am on a 40mg oxalates a day. With numerous practices to help bind oxalates and flush the off loading my body is doing due to storage of oxalates. I ate a high ancient grain diet for over a decade. I made superb gluten free blends with ancient grains. It was a family business. And it was stunningly good. But it loaded me with oxalates, in a cancer treatment adverse event body. I thought I was doing just the right thing incorporating ancient whole grains.

I will respond in Sajah’s comment with some numbers of oxalates in herbs we don’t suspect.

I would like you to check out Sally’s website https://sallyknorton.com/relief/#food-list or if you find other’s let me know as well. I had a friend who is a research geek. And she found so much inaccurate information which was well respected, past tense.

PS Sally does not know I am referencing her here. But she is my most reliable source.

sallyknorton.com

Dump the healthy foods that are bad for your health. - Sally K. Norton

Relieve the pain of oxalate poisoning, choose nutritious low-oxalate options, and lower your oxalate intake. Here's why that's easier said than done.

[Marilyn Michele]

Chad, yes research shows that oxalates can cause kidney stones. It did for me. But that was old research news, now we know that oxalates can cause many other conditions. And the rough bit is – what foods we thought were high in oxalates, in other words what is on the oxalate list to avoid, is inaccurate. Cornell nursing guide had a page of oxalate high foods which was 25% wrong. So there is a gal, Sally K. Norton who I have read and worked with. She is providing current research and data. Go to her website. And her online books are pretty reasonable in cost.

( https://sallyknorton.com/oxalate-science/ )

I am on holiday and not at my computer very often. But while I am here let me share with you my experience. In my next post.

sallyknorton.com

Little known facts about oxalates and their poisonous effects - Sally K. Norton

The oxalic acid in the plants we eat can cause generalized health problems such as poor concentration and joint stiffness - even carpel tunnel syndrome.

[Marilyn Michele]

Here here dear one I sure embrace and enfold you, your heart, your story as you share. Thank you for vividly including me. That felt really nice.

I know I am of light. One of my guardians is Lucifer (Light Bringer) which is Venus. But even the name as she offered herself to me IS curious, right? I gave her a good challenge. As I do. But not for long. It was just for clarification.

I came in this life expression very attuned to that of the heavenly realms. But I was to walk clearly in the mud, and deep into the subterranean.

And if I may say, in the darkness there is -dark mother, and there is -shadow lands. Distinct in my view. But aren’t they often closely intertwined? What say you?

I find for me, with age ripening life up, multiple journeys of acute to chronic, to threatening illness, there is a perfuming and juiciness in it all. The complex / shit and shine-o-lah / of our world has less grip. The traction it wants to suggest is part of the play. And the dance within such play becomes less cerebral, and more felt, more balanced within. The mind comes to actively, or … more often ; ), support balancing instead of holding to being the master of the play, but to serve love as life as me as banal. Let me offer that some are here to master within the play. And I applaud that for them. But I have been side-lined with my life expression over and again within the play… flopped right down into the muck. Stuck in the muck. And referencing astrology, doesn’t Venus love that!? Venus in my chart sure does. My Venus in Taurus 9-house, says, yes to the mucky muddy’ness of my terrains. Mucky sometimes stuck muddy play as life. And yes to the wisdom therein. But the bounty of life’s juiciness, the perfume, the intimacy of relationship with all for me is often of “muckiness.”

So…one of the gifts given to me in this life expression, since I am in all this mud, this earthiness, I paint with the colors of earth and rock!! How fabulous is that? It is awesome. I am very grateful.

What tangible, maybe small, whatever… what blessing has landed your way of late?

Let’s keep engaged as it lifts. I welcome any more of your querying.

[Marilyn Michele]

Hey Chad, what a delight to be engaged with you. Bravo you. I am experiencing with you that of mirroring, and as we go we are rubbing the rust off of each other’s mirrors. This is an old expression I heard, which I like. Or as scripture says “iron sharpening iron.”

Owning and expressing “your story” is felt here. AND more and more, I feel you are not asking me to be in your story. I am in full appreciation. And I am hearing you better.

While your realm expressed is more of the heavens, mine has been the subterranean. More dark mother love kindled. For me, as Western culture is all set up for the heavenly narrative and often misaligned with dark mother, my eye is sharp, and I easily call out felt imbalances. The imbalance is heavy and most often strongly held. Held on to dearly.

I too have guardians, guides, angels. There is no intent to disregard another’s. We are of many more dimensions than just 3D. But we are of this banal, embodied life. And within this, this body is a bounty of wisdom. And we are cousins and children with all of 3D life expressions. Wisdom bubbles up beyond the practices of our Western ways.

I love the books by Some. He wrote, “Such living is what ancient tribes have adapted for thousands of years. And its success can be seen in the fact that in it there is room for the entire person to exist.” Patrice Malidoma Some” Pg 22 Ritual Having room for the entire person to exist. Many heavenly practices do not allow for me, my entire person to exist. And while there is much glory and goodness in heavenly ways it is only as they allow room for the entire person to exist. I am not wanting to throw the baby out with the bath water. But I am keen to see that so much of the Christian church has been co-opted by Western Civilization.

I do feel you are allowing room for me. I find your expressions and engagement are making room for me. But I will challenge, present a voice of discomfort or difference. And I thank you. Do we have more rust to rub off of our mirrors? Indeed. But I can hear and feel much of what we share to be more of same’ness. I must go feed my dogs. They are good beggars when I am late!

• This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Marilyn Michele.

[Marilyn Michele]

Hey Chad, I honor and respect your engagement with me. Thank you for staying in the conversation. I cannot respond fully right now except to ask, might the “figuring out” of why shit happens keep us within our own framework? Might we be drawn, or simply be amidst that which is way beyond our current framework of reference? Not understanding, not claiming to know why does not negate my transformation. In my experience it enhances my transformation. As I am not the one directing it, this personal expression at hand. While not in a place of having figured much of anything out, I am fully embracing what is on deck and participating within. Because I know the redemptive juiciness, the perfume of joining in the vitality of life, even when I am in the compost heap. So is your way with God giving definitions, holding within your framework, or is God extending you beyond all known particulars? I find to be in the unknown territory is ok. I am not negating my spiritual/body wholeness when I don’t know. In fact I feel this one becomes more porous and open to that which is beyond self. And don’t get me wrong. All of life’s movements are welcome. Exposing the gifts within—divine within — which was/is always there. So maybe we might call this a movement of growth, but I find it is an expression of truth within -exposed as vital life dancing.

[Marilyn Michele]

Hey Chad… good on you in your journey. I am going to be straight forward with you Chad. Your voice felt very confident. So may I assume you welcome a frank discussion? I felt a little preached to in your sharing. The whole notion of “dis-ease” for me is rather simplistic. AND self incriminating within the familiar use of it. I feel illness, injury, accident, misfortune is more sacred than that. Can you really tell me why shit happens? I can’t. But in a shit storm I can embrace vital life’s movements. And, I can live transformations. Sacred AS all of it. Your voice for me feels very buoyed in church’ism. And while that is ok, I am one who has danced in that paradigm and found it way too rigid. And while in a rigid system- I think, one often partakes of that rigidity without sight of it. Just know your voice as I read it, for me, is a bit didactic. My first health blow was before I was born. I was nailed with ‘down winding’ intrauterine, and as a toddler. A type of iodine was introduced into my system through atomic bomb testing floating down wind. This isn’t a factor of me finding my movements here nor there out of alignment with the universe. It disrupted my endocrine system from the get go. And then…. And then some. The hubris of the atomic bomb developments, can mirror our own hubris as we practice and proclaim what is wellness and what is healing. And with the myriad of my rounds of illnesses, I have danced this conversation and implications of what is proclaimed, vigorously in a many settings. I welcome more to our conversation. Know you are speaking with one who is past my second Saturn return, and I have been brought into illness after illness, left in conditions beyond choice. AND find ALL of it transformative. It is a wowzer. And I am a bit sensitive that the container offered to support one through a shit storm be open and porous enough to allow whatever full dynamic they are to enfold to be honored. Consider the whole Spagyric process as just a model of how much room one might need. One might go through each and every phase of the alchemical process. All of it. Including the repeats. Blessings to you. And thank you for stepping up and providing a reply. May my straight forward engagement be ok for you.

[Marilyn Michele]

Thanks Chad, well said. What was welcomed in your healing? I have found “Illness” or diverted expressions of life lead through the body… are of a wide range. My illnesses, or body lead life changes, have been of a life/death/life pattern. And this painting finally brings forward my experiences. I wouldn’t have seen this so fully if I didn’t regularly sit with others who have severely altered life expressions due to their body’s lead conditions. They have different life patterns. I respect what our bodies teach. Where we are lead, or have opportunity to follow. And what life unfolds as we journey along in humanness, which I wouldn’t have seen otherwise /or come to be.